TRANSCRIPT OF HANNITY & COLMES
FOX NEWS NETWORK
September 18, 2002 Wednesday
GUESTS: Pat Robertson
HOSTS: Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes
COLMES: I'm Alan Colmes. We're back on HANNITY & COLMES.
Coming up tonight, why is one prison in California denying black
inmates their right to have visitors? Is this discrimination
veiled in the guise of security? We'll debate that. First, joining
us now, the chairman and founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network,
the Reverend Pat Robertson.
Reverend Robertson, always good to have you on the program. PAT
ROBERTSON, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING NETWORK: Hey, it's a pleasure
COLMES: All right, sir. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
president, William Gregory, said yesterday that it would be
difficult to justify preemptive attack under Roman Catholic teachings
on warfare. Where do you stand on that?
ROBERTSON: I would tell the good bishop to read the book of Habakkuk
in the Old Testament and see what it says about those who kill and
pillage and rape and hurt innocent people, that the judgment of
the Lord needs to come on them. And you know, with Saddam Hussein,
500,000 innocent Iranians killed, 5,000 to 6,000 Kurds gassed. Who
knows how many Shi'ite Muslims and how many of his enemies? He actually
boils them in oil. This man is a horrible monster. And...
COLMES: You know, nobody denies that. Nobody is saying they love
Saddam Hussein. The question is, what is proper? What is just? Should
the United States take a preemptive strike? And does that violate
Christian teaching for the United States to be the one to decide
we're going after this guy?
ROBERTSON: Well, somebody has got to enforce this. You know, we've
been spending a billion dollars a year on that no-fly zone over
there every year since the Gulf War. And we went in to help the
innocent. We went in to help the oppressed, the Kuwaitis. And now
others are being oppressed. And the bible says to lift the yolk
of oppression from those who would hurt the
innocent and the non-combatants, if you will.
COLMES: You've come on this show many times. We've talked about
members of the religion of Islam on this program, your view of people
of that religion. And you have often said that not enough have spoken
out about the atrocity of September 11. And I want to show you the
statement of the Study of Islam and Democracy, signed on by dozens
and dozens of individuals and groups where they said, "We wish
again to state unequivocally that neither the al-Qaeda organization
nor Usama bin Laden represents Islam or reflects Muslim beliefs
and practice. Rather, groups like al-Qaeda have misused and abused
Islam in order to fit their own radical and indeed anti-Islamic
And this is again signatories all over the place, dozens. They
speak for mainstream Muslims in America and worldwide.
ROBERTSON: You know, I hate to tell you, Alan, but that
is absolute falsehood, not on your part, but on the part of those
who signed it. All you have to do is read the writings of Mohammed
in the Koran. He urges people to attack the infidels. He urges his
followers to kill Christians and Jews. He talks about eradicating
all of the Jews. This man was an absolute wild-eyed fanatic. He
was a robber and a brigand. And to say that these terrorists distort
Islam, they're carrying out Islam.
HANNITY: Reverend, how widespread do you think that fanatical interpretation
is? Do you think it's mainstream? Or do
you think it's the majority of Muslims?
ROBERTSON: I think there are many Muslims, just like there are
many Catholics and there are many Jews and there are many
Protestants, that don't really understand what their religion believes.
And they go along. And they're just kind of easy to get along with
But I think that in the Muslim world, you look at where the terror
is, you look at where the dictators are, you look at where the oppression
is, and it's all in the Muslim world. And I think especially with
Saudi Arabia and Syria and Iran, there is a typical Muslim state.
That's a Muslim theocracy.
ROBERTSON: And look what the Taliban did in Afghanistan. I mean,
these people were carrying out fundamental Muslim teaching.
HANNITY: So Islam is a threat bigger than what most people are
willing to say publicly?
ROBERTSON: I don't think there's any question about it. And I think
the sooner we confront the enemy and say look, this is the teaching
these people. You know, I majored in history in college. And we
learned about jihad. Mohammed declared jihad against the infidels.
And he carried that thing all the way up to Bordeaux in Spain and
the Ottomans, were all the way up to Hungary on the other side of
HANNITY: What is that -- what do mainstream Muslims to think when
they hear what you're saying? Is it that -- I mean, because you're
going right to the heart and soul of their religion. And you're
saying it's predicated on these things, take neither Christians
and Jews for your friends. You talk about jihad, holy war. Some
people have argued on this program no, no, that's not interpreted
correctly. What -- I mean, it's a pretty direct frontal attack against
them. What are they to think when they hear that?
ROBERTSON: All I would say, if you read the teachings of Jesus,
he talks about peace. He talks about love your enemies. He
talks about do good to them that persecute you. You read the Koran,
it says wage war against your enemies. Kill them if you possibly
can. And destroy anybody who doesn't agree with you.I mean, it's
all laid out in the Koran. And what is called the hadif (ph), the
-- you know, interpretation of what Mohammed said, that this whole
thing is in my opinion, is a monumental scam, if you really understand
what went on back there in the early days of Mohammed.
HANNITY: Do you think it's inevitable, then, that the world is
going to be in conflict, perhaps even at war, with Islam for many
decades to come?
ROBERTSON: Unless our government and the leaders recognize the
threat, the answer is absolutely yes. And when you see what's done
to Christians in Indonesia, for example, when you see the persecution
in Saudi Arabia. Here you look at Sudan. They killed two million
plus Christians because of Shiria (ph). In Nigeria right now, they're
getting ready to stone a woman to death for adultery. And it just
goes on and on and on, the list of horror.
COLMES: We're going to take a quick break.
COLMES: I want to talk to you about your statement that Islam is
a sham when we get back. More with Pat Robertson after this.
Later, since that brutal attack on three prison guards in August,
black inmates in a California prison are being punished. Is
this a blatant case of racial profiling? That's ahead on HANNITY
& COLMES tonight.
HANNITY: Still to come, a brutal attack in California in a prison
leads to a crackdown on some of the inmates. But why are some people
screaming racism? We'll debate that. We'll tell you about it.First,
we continue with the Reverend Pat Robertson. Reverend, look, I hate
to even say this, I don't want to even think this, but I'm really
coming to the conclusion that Tom Daschle and some of the Democrats
seem not to have learned a lot from September 11. There is this
desire, this gullibility. They're just gullible as -- they want
to believe Saddam Hussein after 12 years of lie after lie after
lie. And I think that lack of wisdom makes this country vulnerable
and susceptible because it allows him, buys him time to get his
weapons of mass destruction.
ROBERTSON: You know, Sean, he has violated seven clear-cut resolutions
of the United Nations Security Council. Not one, not two, not three,
but seven of them. Not to mention the additional internal discussions
along the way. He stiffed the inspectors every time. He has prevented
them from discovering these weapons of mass destruction. He has
an estimated 600
tons of deadly gases and biological chemical agents. Who knows how
much nuclear material he's got? The Ukrainians are talking about
missing 200 nuclear devices. And if they fell into his hands, we
may be in deadly peril from this man. He's a madman.
HANNITY: But the left doesn't get that. They want one more chance.
We've got to try to allow the inspectors in. One more time. All
it does is buy him time to seek new weapons of mass destruction,
allows himself to create alliances with terror groups. And if he
ever gets them, he may not have the means of launching them from
here, but he certainly can get them to
Israel. And he certainly perhaps can get across our borders if he
has, you know, alliance with a terrorist organization. They don't
get it. They don't get it. They didn't get it when Reagan was fighting
the Cold War. They want to abolish the CIA. The left in America
doesn't get it.
ROBERTSON: Well, I've read books recently. And I'm sure you have
too that go back in the history. And your own book pointed it out,
some of the terrible failings of our intelligence. There's a book
just out about the intelligence breakdown...
ROBERTSON: ...that shows how the left, as you say, opposed virtually
everything. You go back to the church...
COLMES: Oh, reverend.
ROBERTSON: ...they wanted to gut the CIA.
COLMES: First of all, Daschle and Gephardt are on the same page
as the president. I showed you quotes just a few minutes ago. They're
on the same page. They're not even arguing with him. We had one
Democrat on tonight as a guest, who's running for office in Chicago,
who's finally speaking out as some -- I think most Democrats should.
They're on the same page.
They're capitulating. There's not even healthy debate in this country,
reverend. So to say that the left, the evil horrible left is doing
the wrong thing, is just not accurate.
ROBERTSON: Well, you know, they know how to put their finger up
in the wind and the voters...
COLMES: Oh, come on. You didn't do any polling when you were running
for president? You didn't do any polling when you were running for
ROBERTSON: Well, of course you do polling, but they have polled.
And they've got the control of the Senate at stake. And they know
ROBERTSON: And the Republicans are beating them up all over the
country, in South Dakota, in Iowa, and Georgia, and...
COLMES: We'll see in a few days. Let me show you something you
said, the last time you appeared on HANNITY & COLMES. Let's
take a look.
ROBERTSON: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Liberals always lie.
COLMES: Oh, please. Come on.
ROBERTSON: They always lie.
COLMES: Come on, that's not...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLMES: What -- Pat, what would Jesus say about that kind of a
comment? Liberals always lie?
HANNITY: Amen.COLMES: Jesus has spoken. Ladies and gentlemen, Jesus
HANNITY: He'd say amen.
COLMES: He's come back. He's sitting next to me. We have just seen
the second coming. Go ahead.
ROBERTSON: You know, Jesus spoke to the Pharisees. He called them
whitewashed tombs. And he said you know, you always speak a falsehood.
So he talked about the devil being a liar and the father of lies.
So he said some pretty rough words as well.
COLMES: All right. Is that -- do you want to interpret that as
anti- liberal, bigotry? You make a blanket statement, liberals lie?
Is that -- that's not a Christian like thing to say.
ROBERTSON: Well, it's not Christian but it's true.
HANNITY: It's true.
ROBERTSON: You know...COLMES: Come on. All liberals lie? They all
lie. I'm a liar?
ROBERTSON: Oh yes, they lie from time to time. They don't necessarily
lie in every word they say...
ROBERTSON: ...but their general premise is based on falsehood,
COLMES: Reverend, that seems to me like a lack of critical thinking
to make such a blanket statement like that about an entire group
of people. I am personally hurt. I'm very sensitive, you know. You
hurt my feelings.
ROBERTSON: They're diminishing -- I'm not sure, you won't even
be in that camp. You're too nice a person to be associated with
COLMES: All right, this idea -- and about Islam, you say
that Islam is scam.
COLMES: You're insulting the largest religion on the planet,
an entire group of people, when you make a statement like you did
in the last segment. Islam is a scam. Do you want to qualify that?
ROBERTSON: Can I tell you why? Can I tell you why?
ROBERTSON: You've heard of mecca. Mecca, there is a black
stone. Mohammed's father and grandfather were keeper of 360 sacred
rocks at mecca. And they said there was a meteor or something that
fell out of the sky. And the most important deity in mecca was the
moon god. And he was the same god that was you know, Ur of Kaldez
(ph) when Abraham was up there. And his name was Allah. And he had
three daughters. And you remember that the Koran that he wrote into
the Koran that he thinks that we should worship those three daughters,
and then disciples got after him. So he took the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
And Salman Rushdie wrote about the satanic verses.
This whole thing was situational. It took about 20 years
to write the entire Koran. 80 percent of it comes from the Jewish
and Christian scriptures. He mentions Moses 500 times in the Koran.
I mean, it is strictly a theft of Jewish theology. And then he turned
around and he murdered all the Jews in Medina. I mean, this man
was a killer. And to think that this is a peaceful religion is fraudulent.
It just is. I wish people would read the Koran itself and see what
it says, because they'd be shocked.
HANNITY: All right, Reverend Robertson, always good to see you.
You know what might be a good idea? I think maybe we should you
bring back. And I think we need a live, maybe a half hour, an hour
debate on the topic. And I don't know if you'd be willing to do
that, but I think it would be very informative for our viewers.
ROBERTSON: Well, I think it's one of those things we've got to
wake people up before somebody else blows up another tower or hits
another military installation.
HANNITY: Reverend Robertson, thank you...
ROBERTSON: Thank you.
HANNITY: ...as always for being with us. Appreciate you being here.
Contact Pat Robertson
Sean Hannity fails to challenge Pat Robertson's
CAIR today expressed concern about what it says is a pattern of
anti-Muslim bias by Fox News Channel citing Wednesday night's "Hannity
& Colmes" program as an example of how the network promotes
anti-Muslim hate. On that program, host Sean Hannity seemed to encourage
televangelist Pat Robertson in his venomous attack on Islam and
on the Prophet Muhammad.
About the Prophet Muhammad, Robertson said: "This man was
an absolute wild-eyed fanatic. He was a robber and a brigand. And
to say that these terrorists distort Islam, they're carrying out
Islam." Instead of challenging those hate-filled remarks, Hannity
said: "Reverend, how widespread do you think that fanatical
interpretation is? Do you think it's mainstream? Or do you think
it's the majority of Muslims?"
After Robertson replied by calling Islam "a monumental scam,"
Hannity said: "So Islam is a threat bigger than what most people
are willing to say publicly?... Do you think it's inevitable, then,
that the world is going to be in conflict, perhaps even at war,
with Islam for many decades to come?"
In the program's second segment, Robertson said: "[The Quran,
Islam's revealed text] is strictly a theft of Jewish theology.I
mean, this man [Muhammad] was a killer. And to think that this is
a peaceful religion is fraudulent."
"Our office receives daily complaints from concerned Muslims
and people of other faiths who say that Fox's news and views on
Islam, Muslims or the Middle East are neither fair nor balanced.
Venomous and hate-filled remarks like those made by Robertson, and
Sean Hannity's failure to challenge those remarks, poison the minds
of ordinary viewers and can incite acts of violence against American
Muslims," said CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad.
Awad added that in just the past month, there was a shooting attack
on an Ohio mosque, vandalism at Islamic center under construction
in Virginia and the revelation of a detailed plan to attack some
50 Florida mosques. He also called on American religious and political
leaders to repudiate defamatory attacks on the faith of Islam.
As other examples of the network's anti-Muslim bias, Awad cited
Fox's inflammatory coverage of last Friday's "terror scare"
in Florida, talk show host Bill O'Reilly's comparison of the Quran
to Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and the network's tendency to
ambush and abuse those Muslims who do appear on its programs. He
did however note that Fox's "On the Record" with host
Greta Van Susteren often presents fair and balanced coverage of
Muslims and Islam.
In a recent CAIR survey, 45 percent of Muslim respondents said
Fox News was the media outlet that exhibited the most biased coverage
of Islam and Muslims. CAIR is seeking to counter anti-Muslim hate
in American society with its Library Project, a campaign to encourage
Muslim individuals and groups to sponsor 18-item "library packages"
of books, videos and audio cassettes about Islam and Muslims for
distribution to as many as 16,000 public libraries nationwide. The
package contains books such as "Muhammad," a biography
of the Prophet Muhammad by Yahiya Emerick.